
Shai Agassi: A new ecosystem for electric cars
So how would you run a whole country without oil? That’s the question that sort of hit me in the middle of a Davos afternoon about four years ago. It never left my brain. And I started playing with it more like a puzzle. The original thought I had: this must be ethanol. So I went out and researched ethanol, and found out you need the Amazon in your backyard in every country. About six months later I figured out it must be hydrogen, until some scientist told me the unfortunate truth, which is, you actually use more clean electrons than the ones you get inside a car, if you use hydrogen. So that is not going to be the path to go. And then sort of through a process of wandering around, I got to the thought that actually if you could convert an entire country to electric cars, in a way that is convenient and affordable, you could get to a solution. Now I started this from a point of view that it has to be something that scales en masse. Not how do you build one car, but how do you scale this so that it can become something that is used by 99 percent of the population? The thought that came to mind is that it needs to be as good as any car that you would have today. So one, it has to be more convenient than a car. And two, it has be more affordable than today’s cars. Affordable is not a 40,000 dollar sedan, right? Alright? That’s not something that we can finance or buy today. And convenient is not something that you drive for an hour and charge for eight. So we’re bound with the laws of physics and the laws of economics. And so the thought that I started with was how do you do this, still within the boundary of the science we know today — no time for science fair, no time for playing around with things or waiting for the magic battery to show up. How do you do it within the economics that we have today? How do you do it from the power of the consumer up? And not from the power of an edict down. On a random visit to Tesla on some afternoon, I actually found out that the answer comes from separating between the car ownership and the battery ownership. In a sense if you want to think about it this is the classic “batteries not included.” Now if you separate between the two, you could actually answer the need for a convenient car by creating a network, by creating a network before the cars show up. The network has two components in them. First component is you charge the car whenever you stop — ends up that cars are these strange beasts that drive for about two hours and park for about 22 hours. If you drive a car in the morning and drive it back in the afternoon the ratio of charge to drive is about a minute for a minute. And so the first thought that came to mind is, everywhere we park we have electric power. Now it sounds crazy. But in some places around the world, like Scandinavia, you already have that. If you park your car and didn’t plug in the heater, when you come back you don’t have a car. It just doesn’t work. Now that last mile, last foot, in a sense, is the first step of the infrastructure. The second step of the infrastructure needs to take care of the range extension. See we’re bound by today’s technology on batteries, which is about 120 miles if you want to stay within reasonable space and weight limitations. 120 miles is a good enough range for a lot of people. But you never want to get stuck. So what we added is a second element to our network, which is a battery swap system. You drive. You take your depleted battery out. A full battery comes on. And you drive on. You don’t do it as a human being. You do it as a machine. It looks like a car wash. You come into your car wash. And a plate comes up, holds your battery, takes it out, puts it back in, and within two minutes you’re back on the road and you can go again. If you had charge spots everywhere, and you had battery swap stations everywhere, how often would you do it? And it ends up that you’d do swapping less times than you stop at a gas station. As a matter of fact, we added to the contract. We said that if you stop to swap your battery more than 50 times a year we start paying you money because it’s an inconvenience. Then we looked at the question of the affordability. We looked at the question, what happens when the battery is disconnected from the car. What is the cost of that battery? Everybody tells us batteries are so expensive. What we found out, when you move from molecules to electrons, something interesting happens. We can go back to the original economics of the car and look at it again. The battery is not the gas tank, in a sense. Remember in your car you have a gas tank. You have the crude oil. And you have refining and delivery of that crude oil as what we call petrol or gasoline. The battery in this sense, is the crude oil. We have a battery bay. It costs the same hundred dollars as the gas tank. But the crude oil is replaced with a battery. Just it doesn’t burn. It consumes itself step after step after step. It has 2,000 life cycles these days. And so it’s sort of a mini well. We were asked in the past when we bought an electric car to pay for the entire well, for the life of the car. Nobody wants to buy a mini well when they buy a car. In a sense what we’ve done is we’ve created a new consumable. You, today, buy gasoline miles. And we created electric miles. And the price of electric miles ends up being a very interesting number. Today 2010, in volume, when we come to market, it is eight cents a mile. Those of you who have a hard time calculating what that means — in the average consumer environment we’re in in the U.S. 20 miles per gallon that’s a buck 50, a buck 60 a gallon. That’s cheaper than today’s gasoline, even in the U.S. In Europe where taxes are in place, that’s the equivalent to a minus 60 dollar barrel. But e-miles follow Moore’s Law. They go from eight cents a mile in 2010, to four cents a mile in 2015, to two cents a mile by 2020. Why? Because batteries life cycle improve — a bit of improvement on energy density, which reduces the price. And these prices are actually with clean electrons. We do not use any electrons that come from coal. So in a sense this is an absolute zero-carbon, zero-fossil fuel electric mile at two cents a mile by 2020. Now even if we get to 40 miles per gallon by 2020, which is our desire. Imagine only 40 miles per gallon cars would be on the road. That is an 80 cent gallon. An 80 cent gallon means, if the entire Pacific would convert to crude oil, and we’d let any oil company bring it out and refine it, they still can’t compete with two cents a mile. That’s a new economic factor, which is fascinating to most people. Now this would have been a wonderful paper. That’s how I solved it in my head. It was a white paper I handed out to governments. And some governments told me that it’s fascinating that the younger generation actually thinks about these things. (Laughter) Until I got to the true young global leader, Shimon Peres, President of Israel, and he ran a beautiful manipulation on me. First he let me go to the prime minister of the country, who told me, if you can find the money you need for this network, 200 million dollars, and if you can find a car company that will build that car in mass volume, in two million cars — that’s what we needed in Israel — I’ll give you country to invest the 200 million into. Peres thought that was a great idea. So we went out, and we looked at all the car companies. We sent letters to all the car companies. Three of them never showed up. One of them asked us if we would stay with hybrids and they would give us a discount. But one of them Carlos Ghosn, CEO of Renault and Nissan, when asked about hybrids said something very fascinating. He said hybrids are like mermaids. When you want a fish you get a woman and when you need a woman you get a fish. (Laughter) And Ghosn came up and said, “I have the car, Mr. Peres; I will build you the cars.” And actually true to form, Renault has put a billion and a half dollars in building nine different types of cars that fit this kind of model that will come into the market in mass volume — mass volume being the first year, 100 thousand cars. It’s the first mass-volume electric car, zero-emission electric car in the market. I was running, as Chris said, to be the CEO of a large software company called SAP And then Peres said, “Well won’t you run this project?” And I said, “I’m ready for CEO” And he said, “Oh no no no no no. You’ve got to explain to me, what is more important than saving your country and saving the world, that you would go and do?” And I had to quit and come and do this thing called A Better Place. We then decided to scale it up. We went to other countries. As I said we went to Denmark. And Denmark set this beautiful policy; it’s called the IQ test. It’s inversely proportional to taxes. They put 180 percent tax on gasoline cars and zero tax on zero-emission cars. So if you want to buy a gasoline car in Denmark, it costs you about 60,000 Euros. If you buy our car it’s about 20,000 Euros. If you fail the IQ test they ask you to leave the country. (Laughter) We then were sort of coined as the guys who run only in small islands. I know most people don’t think of Israel as a small island, but Israel is an island — it’s a transportation island. If your car is driving outside Israel it’s been stolen. (Laughter) If you’re thinking about it in terms of islands, we decided to go to the biggest island that we could find, and that was Australia. The third country we announced was Australia. It’s got three centers — in Brisbane, in Melbourne, in Sydney — and one freeway, one electric freeway that connects them. The next island was not too hard to find, and that was Hawaii. We decided to come into the U.S. and pick the two best places — the one where you didn’t need any range extension. Hawaii you can drive around the island on one battery. And if you really have a long day you can switch, and keep on driving around the island. The second one was the San Francisco Bay Area where Gavin Newsom created a beautiful policy across all the mayors. He decided that he’s going to take over the state, unofficially, and then officially, and then created this beautiful Region One policy. In the San Francisco Bay Area not only do you have the highest concentration of Priuses, but you also have the perfect range extender. It’s called the other car. As we stared scaling it up we looked at what is the problem to come up to the U.S.? Why is this a big issue? And the most fascinating thing we’ve learned is that, when you have small problems on the individual level, like the price of gasoline to drive every morning. You don’t notice it, but when the aggregate comes up you’re dead. Alright? So the price of oil, much like lots of other curves that we’ve seen, goes along a depletion curve. The foundation of this curve is that we keep losing the wells that are close to the ground. And we keep getting wells that are farther away from the ground. It becomes more and more and more expensive to dig them out. You think, well it’s been up, it’s been down, its been up, it’s going to keep on going up and down. Here is the problem: at 147 dollars a barrel, which we were in six months ago, the U.S. spent a ton of money to get oil. Then we lost our economy and we went back down to 47 — sometimes it’s 40, sometimes it’s 50. Now we’re running a stimulus package. It’s called the trillion-dollar stimulus package. We’re going to revive the economy. Hopefully it happens between now and 2015, somewhere in that space. What happens when the economy recovers? By 2015 we would have had at least 250 million new cars even at the pace we’re going at right now. That’s another 30 percent demand on oil. That is another 25 million barrels a day. That’s all the U.S. usage today. In other words at some point when we’ve recovered we go up to the peak. And then we do the OPEC stimulus package also known as 200 dollars a barrel. We take our money and we give it away. You know what happens at that point? We go back down. It’s going to go up and down. And the downs are going to be much longer and the ups are going to be much shorter. And that’s the difference between problems that are additive, like CO2, which we go slowly up and then we tip, and problems that are depletive, in which we lose what we have, which oscillate, and they oscillate until we lose everything we’ve got. Now we actually looked at what the answer would be. Right? Remember in the campaign: one million hybrid cars by 2015. That is 0.5 percent of the U.S. oil consumption. That is oh point oh well percent of the rest of the world. That won’t do much difference. We looked at an MIT study: ten million electric cars on the global roads. Ten million out of 500 million we will add between now and then. That is the most pessimistic number you can have. It’s also the most optimistic number because it means we will scale this industry from 100 thousand cars is 2011, to 10 million cars by 2016 — 100 x growth in less than five years. You have to remember that the world today is bringing in so many cars. We have 10 million cars by region. That’s an enormous amount of cars. China is adding those cars — India, Russia, Brazil. We have all these regions. Europe has solved it. They just put a tax on gasoline. They’ll be the first in line to get off because their prices are high. China solves it by an edict. At some point they’ll just declare that no gasoline car will come into a city, and that will be it. The Indians don’t even understand why we think of it as a problem because most people in India fill two or three gallons every time. For them to get a battery that goes 120 miles is an extension on range, not a reduction in range. We’re the only ones who don’t have the price set right. We don’t have the industry set right. We don’t have any incentive to go and resolve it across the U.S. Now where is the car industry on that? Very interesting. The car industry has been focused just on themselves. They basically looked at it and said, “Car 1.0 we’ll solve everything within the car itself.” No infrastructure, no problem. We forgot about the entire chain around us. All this stuff that happens around. We are looking at the emergence of a car 2.0 — a whole new market, a whole new business model. The business model in which the money that is actually coming in, to drive the car — the minutes, the miles if you want, that you are all familiar with — subsidize the price of the car, just like cellphones. You’ll pay for the miles. And some of it will go back to the car maker. Some of it will go back to your own pocket. But our cars are actually going to be cheaper than gasoline cars. You’re looking at a world where cars are matched with windmills. In Denmark, we will drive all the cars in Denmark from windmills, not from oil. In Israel, we’ve asked to put a solar farm in the south of Israel. And people said, “Oh that’s a very very large space that you’re asking for.” And we said, “What if we had proven that in the same space we found oil for the country for the next hundred years?” And they said, “We tried. There isn’t any.” We said, “No no, but what if we prove it?” And they said, “Well you can dig.” And we decided to dig up, instead of digging down. These are perfect matches to one another. Now all you need is about 10 percent of the electricity generated. Think of it as a project that spans over about 10 years. That’s one percent a year. Now when we’re looking at solving big problems, we need to start thinking in two numbers. And those are not 20 percent by 2020. The two numbers are zero — as in zero footprint or zero oil — and scale it infinity. And when we go to COP15 at the end of this year we can’t stop thinking of padding CO2. We have to start thinking about giving kickers to countries that are willing to go to this kind of scale. One car emits four tons. And actually 700 and change million cars today emit 2.8 billion tons of CO2. That’s, in the additive, about 25 percent of our problem. Cars and trucks add up to about 25 percent of the world’s CO2 emissions. We have to come and attack this problem with a focus, with an effort that actually says, we’re going to go to zero before the world ends. I actually shared that with some legislators here in the U.S. I shared it with a gentleman called Bobby Kennedy Jr., who is one of my idols. I told him one of the reasons that his uncle was remembered is because he said we’re going to send a man to the moon, and we’ll do it by the end of the decade. We didn’t say we’re going to send a man 20 percent to the moon. And there will be about a 20 percent chance we’ll recover him. (Laughter) He actually shared with me another story, which is from about 200 years ago. 200 years ago, in Parliament, in Great Britain, there was a long argument over economy versus morality. 25 percent — just like 25 percent emissions today comes from cars — 25 percent of their energy for the entire industrial world in the U.K. came from a source of energy that was immoral: human slaves. And there was an argument. Should we stop using slaves? And what would it do to our economy? And people said, “Well we need to take time to do it. Let’s not do it immediately. Maybe we free the kids and keep the slaves. And after a month of arguments they decided to stop slavery, and the industrial revolution started within less than one year. And the U.K. had 100 years of economic growth. We have to make the right moral decision. We have to make it immediately. We need to have presidential leadership just like we had in Israel that said we will end oil. And we need to do it not within 20 years or 50 years, but within this presidential term because if we don’t, we will lose our economy, right after we’d lost our morality. Thank you all very much. (Applause)
@8legsFreak Not that many would. Maybe 0.5% of the driving population would cling to that.
@lopsidedfrog Oil isn't the blood of the earth. Water is more like the blood of the earth, transferring energy and nutrients to other parts. Oil is more like the honey, where all the energy is stored.
@Slip819 Please tell us more.
@garadgd Coal baby. With carbon capture hopefully soon. We have hundreds of years of coal supply.
@princeofexcess Who tells you nuclear is cheap? It's expensive as fuck.
@TheArfdog Nuclear plants are only expensive to build there are less expensive to operate then coal plants. (also we just developed technology to burn the nuclear waste from nuclear plants to get even more energy from it ) Comparing to renewable energy nuclear is really cheap!
@princeofexcess I'd have to see the numbers on that. So far coal is the cheapest and will be for probably the next 200 years. But if nukes can be cheaper and just as safe, i'm all for it. Renewables are the most expensive right now.
@TheArfdog Fuel for nuclear plants is inexpensive and least polluting(except for fusion but fusion is not there yet) So its a long term investment. I am for cheapest source of energy as well! The thing that kills most of us right now is medical problems NOT pollution. So by having cheapest energy possible we save most lives. (there is also clean coal plants but they much more expensive) I hate all the green propaganda thats going around instead of thinking they just threaten ppl. control by fear
@pianovocal Actually, most of the infrastructure is already there – the electrical grid. The Battery Swap stations are to deal (mostly) with range anxiety for the long trip. The other part is the installation of charge spots.
My enthusiasm for Agassi's plan is that he does keep it real – he's really thought this through. There's a 1hr talk in Australia that gives more info as to the economics of the plan. Also, his plan doesnt need any new inventions – we've seen too many that didn't deliver.
@TheArfdog It looks like the US Congress can't get anything done lately and it will probably get worse soon. Agassi is taking a state-by-state approach in the US – California and Hawaii are on-board. I think Australia will be the acid test – if that works out, Better Place will have less trouble convincing countries but they're doing pretty good so far.
@bannor99 Well the US Congress has always been slow. That's how govt works, which is the way it should be. Props to Agassi if he can put this together, just think he could have an easier time if the cars were there first. After all, once the infrastructure is in place it better be utilized (like any capital equipment) to capacity right away or it will waste a lot of money.
@TheArfdog Renault has a roadmap of models starting with the EV version of the Fluence. I don't understand why the LEAF doesn't have a switchable battery, considering that they are practically one company and Renault doesn't have significant North American prescence while Nissan does.
Dandaniels1978 I was not commenting on how long it would take to swap a battery. My concern is the infrastructure. Which like anything else on a national or global would take years to implement, electric grid or no electric grid. Batteries for such a concept or currently very expensive. Even GM has not started selling the Volt because of cost factors. Tesla starting at $95,000 for their electric car, it is a little high for the general population.
continuation for other comment
It turns into the chicken and the egg theory. Again it is a nice thought. I have done some research. So where my opinion comes from has fact to back it up. We have gas currently as the current infrastructure.
I feel it would be wiser to use a hybrid that uses flex fuel that uses gas among other more cost efficient and greener choices. This way we use the current infrastructure and start going towards a more efficient energy and green energy source, be it electrical (if it does not use coal to be made), hydrogen,bio fuels or etc.
Of course the engine or motor would have to be much more efficient then or current engines.
@Dandaniels1978 There won't be a true oil crisis for another 70 years. Even then, it will probably be extended as more reserves are being discovered all the time.
have to disagree with you Dandaniels1978. I am far from being pessismistic, just keeping it realistic. Watch this video about "Cars Of The Future"
at CBS.com
I hope you will better understand my view point after watching this factual video about the Future of Cars.
@Pashtenok He is Realy Smart Guy! ANd he try to change The world!
@ilyal267 Agree. My point was that he's not a Mexican… he's ISRAELI, like me and you.
developed nations better develop this new tech n stop buying oil
so that africa can buy oil cheaply from middle east
and start building industries and factories
THE END OF ISLAM UIS CLOSE
@ 1:45
"We are bound with the laws of physics and the laws of economics." . . . "How do you do it from the power of the consumer, up… not from the power of an edict, down."
How utterly refreshing to hear someone who is seriously working for environmental issues, that also understands the reality of science and economics. The green revolution will blossom best when economics are taken into account. It is coming, inevitably, and the dinosaurs that don't change will surely die. As they should.
@dfdtdfdx If the new tech is better than oil, wouldn't it make more sense for Africa to bypass oil-based industries and go straight to renewable resources?
(-1-)
"Affordable is NOT a $40,000 sedan" (hint the volt!)
"if you swap your battery more than 50 times a year we will pay you money"
"the battery is the crude oil"
when you buy an EV you buy the battery crude oil for the entire life of the EV (hint Leaf)
Nissan Carlos Gosn "hybrids are like mermaids when you want a fish you get a woman, when you need a woman you get a fish!"
"1st year 100,000 EVs"
(-2-)
Denmark IQ test:
Denmark 180% tax on gasoline cars (€60,000)
0% tax on 0 emission cars (€20,000)
"if you fail this IQ test you leave the country!"
"for Indians to get a 120 mile battery is an extension on range not a reduction"
BPlace EV's cheaper than gasoline cars
Better Place Denmark cars 100% wind powered
Better Place Israel cars 100% sun powered
(-3-)
"in solving big problems we need to start thinking in two numbers.. not 20% by 2020.. (but) 0 as in 0 footprint 0 oil and scale to infinity"
700Million cars emit 2.8Billion tons CO2 per year
cars 25% of world's CO2 emissions
25% of UK's energy came from slaves 200 years ago
"end oil within this presidential term, because if we don't we will lose our economy and right after we lost our morality"
ff
for those who thinks battery pollutes, keep in mind that the first thing car companies like honda and toyota buys back when the car get into an accident is the battery. it's because it's recyclable. even acid battery gets recycle too, go visit the car junk yard before throwing in your contradiction. any idea is better then no idea, Agassi is actually trying something here.
Is there somehwere I can read the details of his plan? How would the infrastructure be developed and how much would it cost? How does battery swapping reduce the cost? How do we get the powerplants needed to provide all of the electricity and would it come from nuclear, solar, or what. How does he overcome the problems of solar and wind in terms of consistent energy production? What about the grid?
It's kinda ironic that he has the word "gas" in his name 😛
I love it – I moved to Denmark for several reasons – this is one of them.
@renehenckens
1:Like shuforce already said, batteries are recyclable – 90% of a lithium battery if I remember right.
2:Why the hell should the battery swap station give you a not fully charged battery? Jeez!?! There will be enough capacity per swap station so this doesn't happen.
3:The Batteries have a climate system for that situation.
@renehenckens
4:Like Agassi in the video already said, Better Place is buying energy from alternative sources.
5:WTF?!? Do you think that Better Place will run down the batteries to the last kWh so that their customers only get 1 mile per battery swap? Really? Of course there will be a certain threshold where "worn" batteries are sorted out but it will be way before 40 miles per battery.
@renehenckens
1: To get that many batteries requires production on a MASSIVE scale
yes, mass production is needed, as well as for fixed battery EVs. But that has nothing to do with your prior question.
2: Because charging costs money
Of course it does, but YOU are paying for the charge. So by contract Better Place has to deliver you a fully charged battery. I don't understand your concern in this point.
3: eehm…what?
The battery is heated or cooled so a constant temperature is maintained.
@renehenckens
1: Uhm…did I mention recycling?! Of course the initial mass production will demand the most energy, foremost the digging for the lithium. But when it's all in the cycle, it should cost far less energy to produce new batteries.
2: You don't trust an AUTOMATED(= no humans) battery switch station, an emotionless machine, did I get that right? It won't be crowded because mostly you will plug-in at home or at a parking lot.
read also Point 3. in the next post
@renehenckens
2: (additional Question) What people will do which mistakes, explain a little bit more.
3:I guess the heating or cooling will only be active when you are driving or the EV is pluged in. Why do you have the assumption that the engineers are that dumb? The cold isn't bad for the Battery while it isn't used. It IS bad when it is used AND cold.
@renehenckens
sorry didn't see you answered my points 4 and 5
4: The increase of EVs will raise slowly so alternative energy sources can grow with it. And there is a little technique called "smart grid" so you can't put down the grid by charging EVs. EVs are even a natural partner to wind power because peak wind power can be taken easily by EVs.
5: So you GENERALLY DON'T TRUST Better Place, even if they give you guaranties by contract? Well then just LOL ^^. It is your own problem then.
@renehenckens
I quess this was pointed to me?
Well yes I trust other people very much indeed. E.g. I trust that the train conductor brings me from A to B. I trust that the pilot flies me safely from A to B. I trust that when I fill up gasoline it IS gasoline and not diesel. And I expect that when I have a contract the contractor will do his duty because I pay for it!
Magnetic motors.
a wheel within a wheel positive on one side neg on the other, sliding in to engage and out to disengage
@renehenckens Too late. Denmark and Israel already support both programs.
You get free parking spots, massive subsidies, tax breaks, AND the car is cheaper in the first place.
Face it, this is the way of the future.
@TheArfdog The US will be the last nation to switch over, after the rest of the world. Israel, Denmark, and Australia have already accepted and begun telling about subsidies to these types of cars, and other European countries are already learning towards accepting this infrastructure. It isn't hard for the rest of the world, only for the polluting arrogant country that is the US.
@pianovocal But it is the most stable and most efficient at our current tech level.
He already said he tried biofuels and hydrogens for cars, and they didn't work. Solar panels on cars would just be fucking moronic. Any other options? Not right now.
@sbhuyan It can come from a lot of different sources.
Solar power, hydrogen power, tidal power, nuclear power. There are many options other than oil.
@johnson1095 Israeli.
@uatimrose Oil lobbies are the only reason we haven't switched.
@8legsFreak
No one will produce them, obviously. They'll be classics, something that exist maybe in less than the number of ten thousand in the entire world.
@garadgd Nuclear power, solar power, tidal power, hydrogen power.
There are lots of alternatives.
@Traviskolber Somehow I think subsidies are not on the horizon right now…. remember the word "austerity"? Anyway, I'm glad Europe can go right ahead and try it. As long as they have enough money. LMAO.
There are other options. I cannot go into detail, but I know one company out there who is making the better mouse trap. This mouse trap will have the POWER to push big vehicles including tractor trailers, with amazing fuel mileage. No batteries needed.
Brilliant.
@pianovocal – thank you so much for your utterly useless comment. "I know a magic solution, but I can't tell you". Brilliant.
KhadaKuraki thank you for your mature and open minded comment. NOT! Keep an open mind and remember there are inventors out there with brilliant ideas that go beyond electric cars. Unlike your not so brilliant insults. Nothing wrong with a good debate, but if you need to be rude, keep it to yourself.
Sorry KhadaKuraki I meant to send that comment to 47f0.
This is what will help get the US out of the recession.
great idea. great vision. only one thing – US never send a man to the moon. check the facts, i believe you know how to search after all the research you have done regarding electric cars.
@mmca2 "US never send a man to the moon" If you're trying to say we faked the moon landing, you're a nut job. You're going to try to convince me that tens of thousands of people have kept it a secret for over 40 years! Really? Not one single person has come forward with evidence of their involvement with a cover up of that magnitude. In this day and age! If anyone had proof the landing was a fake, they would sell their proof, and their story to the highest bidder. No one has done that. No one.
@glennheston
I do not argue with you. A lot more ppl with a lot more knowledge than me and you have investigated the facts. take a look and judge for yourself:
search here for "Documentary – Moon Landing Hoax".
Observe the facts, listen to the nasa spokesman's response and think for yourself.
If any of these guys, describing the little facts, were lying, they would have their butt sewed off, at least. and this movie had never seen a bright day.
@mmca2 The moon landing DID happen. It would be impossible to keep that many people quiet for all these years. If it were a fake, someone would have sold out for a big chunk of cash by now. Or the government would have killed off everyone who had a part in it. The first didn't happen, and the second is so "Hollywood" that it couldn't happen. Think of how many people would be involved in a cover-up that big. Mind bogglingly absurd! It happened. Stop seeing things that aren't there!
@mmca2 Oh, one more thing. If you can get a really nice telescope, you can see the landing site. Don't try coming back with something about how the US government has a way of faking that too.
brilliant.
Interesting. Awesome ideas there man. I'm planning on buying a brand-new car for my parent's 25th anniversary. This has totally helped me.
What's with that ending =S
You asked about motorsports with electric cars.
You might find this interesting. Bear in mind this guy builds these cars in his home garage. Imagine what whole race teams with big sponsorship financing could do. Search Youtube for "Electric Car Drag Racing | Oregon Field Guide | OPB".
Electric cars can built to have some serious balls! 🙂
Battery exchanges. Sorta like how we exchange propane tanks here in the US. Take your empty one anywhere, anytime, and get a full one immediately. Brilliant! With that model, the people who cry about limited range no longer have a valid objection.
In the immortal words of Captain Picard: "MAKE IT SO!!!"
I would love to have a good debate with intelligent people. Intelligent people that use logic and facts to back up what they say. Unfortunately 47f0 choices insults instead of using facts. That is brilliant, NOT!!!!
The Onion brought me here…!
/watch?v=DkGMY63FF3Q
Electric cars create less pollution than gas-powered, but they still generate plenty of pollution. Multiply that by several hundred million, and you're still causing massive and very likely dangerous changes to the environment. What this man is offering is a vague, multi-trillion dollar, decades long SMALL step in the right direction. And that's if it's even feasible. When a businessman in expensive clothes tells you he's got THE answer to some complex problem, back away very, very slowly.
Onion!
Visionary guy
this guy has already been removed from CEO
This would not work. A "greener", more widespread effecient way to create electricity is what needs to be found first otherwise even more fossil fuels will have to be burned to create more electricity.
Some AMAZING breakthroughs are happening all around the world … reducing the cost of solar for instance by 42% in just one year. These breakthroughs are unstoppable and electric cars are coming our way, along with clean energy in all fields.Thank you Shai for your amazing vision for the world.
Yes ^^^ that is exactly what I would love everybody to be greatful for Shai's work – and not only focus on BPLC seeming to fail ….
There is also a very good three part presentation on Youtube with Agassi and he answers many of the concerns, some you've raised too. With the collaboration they have with Tesla Motors and Renault/Nissan and the context of creating a sustainable clean personalised transport system they will minimise pollution, and remember that pollution is simply fuel for another process once we understand the whole picture. Some of the cars being manufactured have very high recyclibility.
That outro had me tripping balls.
Could I get the link for this 3 part video you speak of?
Sorry, it's actually 4 parts … Enjoy. Do a search for Shai Agassi (1/4): Electric car revolution & Better Place
I just saw a documentary about Shai Agassi ! He is like Steve Jobs ! Visionary Man ! "Better place" amazing idea. ( from France )
Tesla Model S voted unanimously by Car and Driver Automobile of the Year 2012. First unanimous vote and first electric car.
MIE315 at UofT brought me here
Casey, you stick to your individual freedom to drive gasoline cars.
A pity that you don't understand that technology allows you to negatively impact the world by needing and burning so much oil. You neglect the responsibility for your actions. You seem to need a government for to remind you of that. Pity.
I would be perfectly fine with you living in a small lot of land growing your own food, like an Amish. Then you would not impact the world and your individual freedom could reign. Go ahead.
You've failed the IQ test. Get out of the country ..
Standing ovation well deserved. This is excellent.
good information but I always wonder if there are people who wait for the speaker to end so they can be the first ones to stand up! LOL!
LOL half the US would leave then.
Wrong. The tax he speaks of is just the recapture of the true cost of burning gas. How much do you, or anyone, pay today for the pollution out of your tailpipe? Zero. Yet that pollution has negative consequences. It is a cost. So the tax simply makes people realize/pay the true total cost of the fuel they burn including getting it to the gas station, AND dealing with the pollution. The free market then nudges rational consumers towards alternative energy sources. Not asshole. Smart.
true in some cases electrical cars is more inefficient than a conventional gas powered car if it gets its power from a coal powered grid.
I mean all this talk of electric cars sounds nice. But I prefer leaning like a hardcore cholo in my 65 Chevy Impala lowrider.
Sorry guys.
That is what I call a GREAT man, even though it just shut down in Denmark. Sad.. Denmark politicians SUCK!
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The first electric car was build between 1880 and 1890 (like the "Flocken Elektrowagen"). Hundred years ago (1910-1925?) more electric cars are driven as gasoline cars in some cities. What are we talking?
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why not try compounding many energy conversion systems into one unified system….oh wait forgot humans don't think in multilateral terms. perhaps we all need to stop thinking about whats economic for the short term and start thinking whats best for the long term. There are hundreds of ideas out there and until the human race can get past thinking ideas need to be copy-righted we will never have the means to collaborate as a united race to solve our problems. There's only 2 solutions to the worlds problems. Either you all learn to stop being so greedy and work together, or kill off 90% of the population. I vote we rid the planet of the useless elites who have no real skills other than finding ways to fill their own pockets, get rid of those unable to prove their able to make any contribution to society. The main problem in the world is all you people want to do is TALK about solutions all the while the problems are getting worse. And please stop believing what the elites want you to…the sun is proof that abundant energy is possible we only have to figure it out and make it happen.
This is bullship. The automobile infrastructure kills the world. You cannot have sustainable infrastructure that kills the environmnent. Google "urban sprawl" and sustainability. He promises us a warm snow. This is oxymoron. Which electric mile? Does he say that the energy comes from the pure air? Looks like a typical "green" manipulation, as usually.
Good concept. Especially about the split in car/battery ownership and the exchangeable batteries.
@Wijnand Veeneman Excellent summary! These finite-resource-deniers are unpatriotic cowards who should be executed for treason.
Tesla Motors
http://www.teslamotors.com/
I heard repeatedly for decades that a cure for cancer was just around the corner on the news. Still no cure. This video promising miracles with electric cars is no different.
That was an EXCELLENT idea anyways, it's a shame that it didn't work.
AMEN